According to the Concord Standard & Times (whose website has not been updated since August 22 as of the time of this post) - the latest delay in the Cabarrus Jail expansion project in Downtown Concord was at the request of the Jail Trail crowd.
The case, which was supposed to be heard by the Court of Appeals, is now put off until October 8. A decision will possibly come from the Court of Appeals early next year - at best. Also, there’s the possibility it goes to the State Supreme Court.
In today’s Tribune, a report on the last Cabarrus County Board of Commissioners meeting, shows that they have all but given up on compromising with the obstructionist Jail Trail crowd:
Mynatt’s first motion Tuesday was to ask Ware Bonsall architects to provide the county with proposals for the full construction documents for two possible redesigns of the project. However, Mynatt retracted the motion.
Next, she proposed to bring in a disinterested outside party to review the jail’s large housing unit and work with commissioners to find what choices they may have in the project.
That motion was voted down 3-2, with Commissioners Jay White, Robert Carruth and Joni Juba voting against.
No jail item is slated for Monday’s County Commission meeting.
What’s important is to keep in mind why the Jail Trail crowd pushed for a later court date. It has little to do with compromise. Jail opponents know that there’s a breaking point where the County will give them what they want, and they are working towards that - not a compromise.
It is not overly taxing on the very deep pockets of these elitist to prolong this case. It is, however, expensive for the County. It’s difficult to calculate the monthly cost of the added construction costs, legal fees, and growing number of inmate tranfers; but it’s somewhere in the $200,000/month range. That’s a few school buses per month. That’s enough money - per quarter - to see to it that every kid had their own textbooks in Cabarrus County. It’s true - many of my friends with kids in school tell me that the kids can’t bring home their own textbooks.
Keep those facts in mind when the Jail Trail crowd turns this into an argument about caring about Concord vs. not caring about Concord. The Jail Trail represents an ever shrinking group of people within 6 or so blocks of the project. Cabarrus County is more diverse and has greater needs than the publically-funded preservation of Downtown Concord. With the mounting costs to the County, Grace Mynatt needs to make a choice - her well-heeled friends Downtown or the us working families who care about education.
Grace Mynatt got the support of both the Jail Trail crowd and those who care about schools in the 2006 election; but she can’t claim to care about both when money that could be going to our schools is being lost to obstructionism that she’s aiding and abetting.
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14 responses so far ↓
1 Aaron // Sep 12, 2007 at 4:01 pm
Amen to that!
And for the record, I define the issue as people who are pro-law enforcement and anti-law enforcement…
2 Brian // Sep 13, 2007 at 8:36 am
I’m sorry but this post is stupid. Lets say they wanted to come to your subburb and put the jail next to your neighborhood. Would you be pissed….Heck yeah you would. Why can these people not fight against this thing. Further more not everyone is rich and an “elitist” that live in the downtown area. Just from a common sense point….why do you want a 6 story jail block in a downtown location near homes and schools and churches….not to say the county is trying to revitilize its downtown area. One sure thing is that this will possible drive away buisness as well as people wanting to move here.
There are alot cheaper options then the 100 milion dollar pit fall that Caruth and Juba has gotten us in. They are just unwilling to compromise on anything because they are head strong, hardheaded and in an aparent Pissing match with the other commissioners and the residents of the city of Concord. A good sign of a good leader/leaders is to listen to its people and be willing to compromise. I know one thing they are not spending my money the way it should be spent. You know the best idea is to have this disinterested person come in and comment on the project. If the project has gone through the proper studies that he says it has gone through then this disinterested party will agree with him and Juba and then we can get on with it. It concerns me that maybe the proper studies have not been done and he is affraid of the out come. Makes you go HMMMMMMMM!!!!!
3 Justin Thibault // Sep 13, 2007 at 10:21 am
Thank you for your insightful analysis.
The jail has been in the Downtown Concord location for 200 years. So, the neighborhood was built around the jail.
No, the City of Concord is doing that - much to the chagrin of many informed citizens within the City Limits.
Tell that to Privette - he made the motion in 2004 for the size, location, and scope of the current jail project.
You should check the record. The County already has given up holding land for a future housing structure in 20 years.
Yes, I’m sure that “Rule by the Uninformed” will be what’s best nationwide.
Care to be more specific as to which studies weren’t done? Keep in mind, the Jail project was in full gear before most of the Commissioners (White, Mynatt, and Juba) were even on the board.
I would suggest you check your facts; but thanks for your comment anyway.
4 Aaron // Sep 13, 2007 at 1:04 pm
Nice Comment Brian, Insightful, well spoken and completely ignorant.
As for you Justin, good response. Thanks for pointing out, yet again that this “saga” has been going on for more than just the last six months. I think that folks keep forgetting it…
Every time one person finally comes to their senses, some other “jackass” reads one of the more recent articles in the I.T. and gets all huffy. Uninformed bloviating on this issue seems to spread more quickly than the old Prell commercials.
“And they tell two friends, and they tell two friends and so on and so on…”
5 Brian // Sep 13, 2007 at 1:29 pm
You know I have been following this issues as well. You to are not the only ones that think you are informed. I’m tired of the distrespect that Caruth and Juba show not only to the other members of the board’ but to the public in general but ignoring what they have say. The people are against this what is so hard about that. Why do we need a 6 story 500 bed jail. No one has explained that. If they want this thing to happen they need do a little better job informing the people. And you know when it was approved in 2004 it wasn’t 120 million dollars either. Also yes the jail has been down town for 200 years……who gives a flying flip if it has been there for 200 years….this is now….you dont put a 6 story 500 bed jail in a small downtown historic distirc. That is IGNORANT! I’m sorry but the ignorant people are the people like you two.
“My Comment: You know the best idea is to have this disinterested person come in and comment on the project…
Your Ignorant answer(and you call me Ignorant): Yes, I’m sure that “Rule by the Uninformed” will be what’s best nationwide.”
Why would discredit a person who is a nationaly recognized authority on corrections. We need fresh eyes on this…..our County Commissioners are not going to be able to make anything out of this. THEY NEED ALL THE HELP THEY CAN GET
I have one questions and please answer me this…Why in the world if there is a possiblity that the numbers are being represented incorrectly would you not want to look into this…why is there such a massive push by Caruth, Juba, and Day to get this 6 Story 500 bed, 120 million dollar jail built? WHY???!!!
6 Aaron // Sep 13, 2007 at 3:35 pm
You might want to check the brain cell destroyer for that one. I just put up a post that pretty much destroys everything you just stated. Oh, and it answers all your questions too.
http://www.braincelldestroyer.com
Or we could build a 24′x24′ 2 cell jail like they had on “Support your local sheriff” but as you said. “This is now”
7 Brian // Sep 13, 2007 at 4:21 pm
Thanks Aaron for your rambling plug!
8 Aaron // Sep 13, 2007 at 7:34 pm
I’m sorry Brian, but somehow I misinterpreted this as a question:
“Why do we need a 6 story 500 bed jail. No one has explained that.
And maybe I was led astray by this:
“you dont put a 6 story 500 bed jail in a small downtown historic distirc.” [SIC]
Well, you can keep your head in the sand, that’s fine. But you were whining that you wanted answers, I told you where to get them. Call it a plug if you want or simply stop asking questions that you deep down, already know the answers too.
I can’t help it if you’re too steeped in Jail Trail rhetoric and talking points to actually see the truth, or much worse, do any actual research…
9 Brian // Sep 14, 2007 at 10:09 am
Your answers are very bias and can and have been disputed. So you just keep playing with youself on your website ok. Thanks for the non answer!
10 Justin Thibault // Sep 14, 2007 at 12:42 pm
Aaron - Cool thy jets, Amigo.
Brian - I would question the $120 million for the “jail” - the entire Justice Complex (Sheriff’s Admin Building, Annex, AND housing unit) project might come to a figure surpassing the $100 million mark.
Normally, given your enthusiasm about this project - I would ask where you’re getting your information and/or what your interest is in the project; but - I’ve got some information that others don’t - so, let me leave you with 2 questions:
1. Is it standard practice at HAYES, SEAY, MATTERN & MATTERN INC - (a Architect, Engineering, and Design-Build firm) to comment on projects by other firms in community forums while not fully disclosing that these comments are being entered during business hours using their network access?
and
2. Given that HAYES, SEAY, MATTERN & MATTERN INC - (a Architect, Engineering, and Design-Build firm) is effectively paying someone to sign into a forum, anonymously, and comment on a project that’s being handled by a competing design-build firm (Turner) and architect (Ware-Bonsall). Especially when the architect is at a frustrating juncture with the client, would you like to make a statement on behalf of the firm? Does HAYES, SEAY, MATTERN & MATTERN INC - (a Architect, Engineering, and Design-Build firm) have an official position on the Cabarrus County Justice Complex project?
Let’s put it this way. You can comment all day long here - as long as you come clean about who you are. I know what you’re doing is a no-no; because I’m a licensed engineer here in North Carolina and, as such, I am rather familiar with NCGS Chapter 89C.
Signing onto a forum anonymously and suggesting that some other firm’s client hire a consultant and otherwise advising on another firm’s project is unethical.
If you’re looking for work or trying to poach another firm’s client, at least use your real name - “Brian”.
If you would like to contact me - use the Contact link at the top of this page. I hope, for your sake, I’m just misunderstanding the situation.
11 Aaron // Sep 14, 2007 at 3:39 pm
OUCH!
Apparantly, folks don’t understand how Google Stats and Stat Tracker work huh?
Oh, and “Brian” if you think that the jail trail bloviating is somehow, unbiased, please seek professional help immediatly.
And Lastly,
“…can and have been disputed.”
By Who and where???
12 Liz // Sep 14, 2007 at 6:38 pm
The architects have already been paid $3,000,000 and want more. The “DETOUR” signs alone were budgeted at $15,000. And the BOC does not want to pay $30,000 for a study???
It would cost less to keep transporting inmates than to pay for all of this at 5.46% interest (it would be lower if the debt rating were not so bad). This will lower the debt rating and cause all future projects, including schools, to cost more.
It costs less then $500,000 a year to farm out inmates, and the jail that will open in two months can handle the needs for the nest few years.
The operating costs alone with 585 beds will take $15,000,000 from our budget.
Why are justin, aaron, carruth and juba all so fixed on this one plan that any sense of fiscal responsibility does not exist with them? They would do anything to shove this down the rest of our throats.
Maybe we should put some of this $$ into crime prevention instead.
13 Aaron // Sep 14, 2007 at 10:55 pm
Liz,
First, the “new jail” which is actually an annex will only put us at acutal capacity. We are over capacity in the existing jail not including the folks who are farmed out to DOC. In short, we still have inmates in DOC when the annex opens. So, no, it wont meet our needs for the “next few years.”
Secondly, your figures concerning capacity are based on those acutally in the jail and not those that should be in the jail. At the risk of putting another “plug” on Justins Blog, I suggest you go to http://www.braincelldestroyer.com and read my posts on this subject. They cover all of the actual needs of the county. It’s easy to say that the need is not that great as long as you don’t do any actual research which seems to be the modus operandi of the anti-law enforcement crowd.
And lastly, there isn’t much more we can do in the field of “crime prevention.” All of the departments in the county use the community policing model, all use the neighborhood association model, all of them offer and implement all of the crime prevention programs you could ever want.
The only crime prevention we dont have in Cabarrus County is deterence, and we can’t deter crime because there are no penalties for commiting them until you get into Class A-D felonies. Anything lower than that just nets you some probation, which you can violate and not get your sentence activated.
Hope this all helps you understand why the pro-law enforcement crowd feels the way we do…
14 Justin Thibault // Sep 15, 2007 at 1:23 am
Aaron - I use Sitemeter; but the Wordpress software is quite helpful in letting you know whose really commenting.
By the way, “Brian” was using his correct first name - in spite of forgetting to mention that he was employed by a competitor of Ware Bonsall and Turner Construction.
Liz - Where are you getting this $15,000,000/year operational cost nonsense? Care to share some actual references…this is always a problem with you - isn’t it? You can never produce the first reference. You can only repeat what your well-heeled friends tell you to say.
I know that it’s a bit of a stretch for you; but think about it. $15,000,000/year means that our taxes would have to go up by 0.15 per $100 valuation.
That’s silly.
It would be nice to find someone in the Jail Trail who could do math.
By the way, the costs of the delay are greater than just the housing costs for the inmates. There’s transportation, overtime for deputies, legal costs for the County, and increases in construction costs. Your $500k/year is only a portion of the cost of the jail.