Open Thread: What is GWB’s Legacy?

December 20th, 2007 by Justin Thibault · 27 Comments

I’m moving the discussion of the President’s record from the 2008 Election Open Thread to this post.

Category: Current Events · Personal Experiences Tags: 2008 Election

27 responses so far ↓

1 Mark Smith // Dec 20, 2007 at 8:25 am

Mr. Wernaers:

Yes, I voted for the guy. He took an $800,000 investment in the Texas Rangers and turned it into $15 million. Yes, he was in some business ventures in the oil business that went bad. Those things happen.

Compare him to Al Gore and John Kerry - two individuals who’ve been in politics all of their adult lives. They too have never generated a payroll. In addition, they never ran a city, county, or state. They pontificate on how things should be done, but have never gone out and made it happen. When you run for the highest executive office in the nation, you need executive experience.

Our economy works because of capitalism. Tax revenue comes from hard-working individuals. Government does not generate income; they only collect it.

I’m not the biggest W. fan in the world. But look at his tax policy. The tax-cuts he made in 2001 have given us 7 years of economic prosperity and low unemployment. Economically speaking, the Bush years are very comparable to the Clinton years: low inflation; low unemployment; sustainable growth. Yes, there are markets that are hurting and pockets where people aren’t doing as well. But as a whole, the economy is on good ground.
2 Thierry Wernaers // Dec 20, 2007 at 4:07 pm

Mr. Smith:
The only reason Dubya didn’t run the Texas Rangers into the ground like he did with all his other businesses is that some of his dad’s friends helped him in return for political favors when he was governor of Texas. You can find that story all over the “internets” but you could start on this website.

The conclusion is that yes, Bush had experience running a business, but all of his companies were failures if it weren’t for some rich friends of his dad’s.

Which brings us back to your “running the country is like a running a business” story, which I think is mostly baloney, but I’ll go along with it for your entertainment value.

Looking at Dubya’s track record it shouldn’t have come as a surprise that he ran this country like he ran his businesses: straight into the ground.
By being the biggest spender since LB Johnson, he managed to turn a $127 billion budget surplus into a $319 billion deficit, within 4 years! Kind of ironic for a guy who’s part of a political party that claims to be fiscally conservative wouldn’t you say?
The result is that this country is bankrupt, Canadian money is now worth the same as the US dollar and your children and grandchildren will be paying off Bush’s debt for years to come. What a legacy. What a way to run a “business”.
3 Steve Smith // Dec 20, 2007 at 4:56 pm

Mark

Treirry and I don’t agree on much (”Scary as that may seem”) but when Clinton left Office there was a surplus in the budget and GW’s spending policy went thru that and now we’re in hole up to our eyeballs. Hindsight is 20/20 (i.e. John McCain)
4 Thierry Wernaers // Dec 20, 2007 at 5:42 pm

I’m expecting a response along the lines of “It’s all the fault of 9/11″…
5 Aaron // Dec 20, 2007 at 7:11 pm

I agree with you Thierry, he did spend like a crack dealer at the Jewlery store. But calling Dubya a conservative is like calling me a liberal.

That’s the issue with the “compassionate conservative” diatribe. They spend like liberals (i.e. medicare drug program) and talk like priests (no gays gettin’ hitched.)

I think the vast majority of the folks who voted for this jackass in 2004 did so because he was better than that frankenstein lookin’ John Kerry…

It’s a sad but true fact that the “lesser of two evils” ideology is becoming more prevalent.

As for his legacy: I’d venture that the only thing he could take credit for is the economy. It’s been strong and unemployment rates are very low. Hey, when the sub-prime crisis causes a recession he can do the same thing that Clinton did when the tech bubble burst: blame it on the next guy…
6 Thierry Wernaers // Dec 20, 2007 at 9:28 pm

The legacy of George W. Bush will be described in future history books by 4 letters: I R A Q
And there’s no way you can blame that one on anyone else, although I’m sure they’ll try. Heck, they’re already trying.
7 Aaron // Dec 21, 2007 at 6:28 am

Well, I don’t think Iraq will be that big a deal in 40 years. Look at FDR. He was present through WWII and most folks just remember the new deal. Same with LBJ, he was a major player in Vietnam but everyone just remembers the “war on poverty” and the “great society.” I talk to youngin’s all the time who think that Nixon got us into vietnam.

Folks seem to remember the economic stuff longer than the war stuff. Hell just look at Clinton’s bombing of that Asprin factory in Sudan. It was a major goof that killed folks but no one remembers that, they just remember how cheap gas used to be…
8 Mark Smith // Dec 21, 2007 at 8:32 am

First of all, all of you liberals out there need to make up your mind. For the last 7 years, all I’ve heard is that Dubya sits there and Cheney runs the country. Now, IF that is true, then my whole executive theory works. Cheney was CEO of Haliburton, a successful company. Economically speaking, the US is doing well.

Second, since LBJ is mentioned, then you should be happy. LBJ is considered to be one of the greatest democratic Presidents. He started the war on poverty and introduced us to the Great Society.

Traditionally speaking, liberals believe more government spending gives better results. So, if Bush has spent more than all of the other great democratic Presidents, then why do liberals hate him so much? He worked with Sen. Kennedy to write the education bill. He just signed an energy bill that promotes conservation (which liberals traditionally support) and bans incandescent light bulbs. He’s investing in more and more government programs.

So, aside from Iraq (because all liberals hate war), why do liberals hate him? He’s spending like a liberal.
9 Justin Thibault // Dec 21, 2007 at 9:09 am

Mark-

He’s spending like a liberal.

I’d take issue with that (even though I’m right of center).

Liberals would have structurally increased entitlement spending, liberals would have not even thought about reforming the Alternative Minimum Tax, and liberals would run a deficit - but not for a war in the Middle East.

None of those would be good. I think the issue is that the government is increasing spending on things like the war and borrowing to do it…making it harder for them to spend “surpluses” on things like entitlements.
10 Aaron // Dec 21, 2007 at 10:13 am

The word surpluses needed about ten more sets of quotation marks when used in that context.
11 MarkMartin // Dec 21, 2007 at 10:33 am

Unfortunately, I think Bush will be best known for the negative impact of Iraq. Here is my list of what I will remember him for:

- A President who prays for guidance, wisdom, and strength.

- A President who is willing to protect ‘life as we know it’ in the United States. Yes, even our dependency on oil.

- A President who wants a healthy economy. History shows that increased military spending creates jobs, increases consumer spending, etc… It irks me when someone who was unemployed, is hired by a corporation with government contracts for military; then wants to protest the United States involvement in military efforts around the World.

All I know at this time is I am very concerned about the future. We abused the natural resources in this country to ignite an economy, we built the Interstate Highway System to bail out the economy, and now we use military spending to support the economy. What is next? Healthcare reform? Eliminate Federal Income Tax? God only knows.
12 Steve Smith // Dec 21, 2007 at 7:42 pm

George W is the funniest President the nation has ever had. He should have his own late night talk show or a stand up act in Vagas.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqLvBUSJucg&feature=related
13 Thierry Wernaers // Dec 21, 2007 at 11:35 pm

Mark Smith:

As far as liberals “needing to make up their mind”.
I’m thinking the people that need to make up their mind are those that put fiscal conservatism and small government in their party platform and then create the biggest debt this country has ever been in, while making government only bigger. To repeat a quote I’ve read a few times: “republicans say that big government doesn’t work, then get to power and proof it”.
When it comes to your question why “liberals hate W”, I would need a couple of pages to answer that question, but I could start with that little thing that you seem to be kind or ridiculing, since you say “besides that”. The Iraq war has cost us almost $500 BILLION, almost 4000 US soldiers killed, 60,000 wounded, hundreds of thousands iraqi’s killed and about 4 million refugees and did not have to be fought, was based on lies and falsehoods. So yes, besides that little thing there’s no reason not to like Bush.

Mark Martin:

If our President is praying for guidance, wisdom and strength and you then look at his actions, you can only come to the conclusion that he’s not praying hard enough or he’s praying to some God that none of us have ever heard of.

Secondly, it seems to me that you’re suggesting that we just need to be in a war all the time because its good for our economy. If that is really what you mean I can only say that that is one of the most ridiculous statements I have ever read. That’s like saying “It’s a good thing so many people get killed and hurt in car crashes, because it’s good for the car industry”.

And finally, while I thoroughly enjoy our discussion back and forth, I’m heading to South Carolina tomorrow to make some real difference. I’ll be canvassing there for Barack Obama the next few weekends.

Enjoy your holidays.
14 Mark Smith // Dec 22, 2007 at 6:47 am

Mr. Wernaers:

Thank you for the explanation.

For the record, I am not ridiculing the war nor the men and women who are there. I have a neighbor who’s son is there (he used to mow my yard) and a cousin who’s in the army who could be transferred there. So, I am concerned about those people.

Regardless of reasons why we went to war (the falsehoods and lies as you stated), we are there. So, now we have to figure out how we get out.

GW Bush is not a conservative. He is a Republican, but not a conservative. He believes in lower taxes and a strong foreign policy. His actions prove he advances a bigger government.

Yes, there is the Republican platform that advocates smaller government and fiscal conservatism. However, as Rep. Paul Stam said at the NC GOP Convention in 2007, the platform (paraphrasing) is a guideline for elected officials, not an oath. While the delegates at conventions debate a platform, the President is the one carries out his agenda, not necessarily the platform of the party (and that can be said who either party).

Yes my friends, I and a number of others voted for George W. Bush. Unfortunately, he is not the conservative that I thought he was as he campaigned in 1999 and 2000. When he was up again in 2004, I voted for him again. Why? Because I thought he would do a better job than JF Kerry.

One last thing Mr. Wernaers – I respect you. You are going to SC to work for a candidate you believe in. Too often I hear individuals say that “there’s no one worth voting for.” So what do those folks do? Nothing but complain. You, however, are putting your time, energy, and resources into someone who you believe is the best hope for America. I disagree with your choice, but admire your conviction and dedication. I hope more and more people take the initiative like you to get involved.

Kudos to Mr. Thibault for posting this forum where we can all get together, have discussion, and laugh. I’d love it if a number of us got together and had a face to face discussion somewhere. I think it would be fun.

Finally, Merry Christmas to all and may God bless you.
15 Justin Thibault // Dec 23, 2007 at 12:29 am

MarkMartin -

Healthcare reform?

I hate to air our dirty laundry; but the GOP needs to start offering a comprehensive, united message on this, and soon.
16 Justin Thibault // Dec 23, 2007 at 12:30 am

Theirry -

To repeat a quote I’ve read a few times: “republicans say that big government doesn’t work, then get to power and proof it”.

That’s P.J. O’Rourke.
17 Justin Thibault // Dec 23, 2007 at 12:34 am

Mark -

He is a Republican, but not a conservative. He believes in lower taxes and a strong foreign policy. His actions prove he advances a bigger government.

You could say the same thing about Ronald Reagan.

Kudos to Mr. Thibault for posting this forum where we can all get together, have discussion, and laugh. I’d love it if a number of us got together and had a face to face discussion somewhere. I think it would be fun.

Rumor has it, the GOP Men’s Club is meeting January 24th.
18 Thierry Wernaers // Dec 23, 2007 at 4:00 am

“Rumor has it, the GOP Men’s Club is meeting January 24th.”
Might be funny if I showed up. Or at least plant a listening device somewhere.
19 Bob Carruth // Dec 23, 2007 at 10:05 am

Perfect example, which I heard in DC last year at the NCAO Legislative Conference. The last day of the conference, we had two keynote speakers - John McCain and Joe Biden. Both were very good speakers, but here was the big difference in the theme of their comments:

McCain: As county officials, we have a thankless job. We are on the front lines trying to address transportation issues, the meth problem, human service issues. His commitment was while WE are trying to solve these problems, the federal government should be a partner to provide us with the assistance for us to solve our problems LOCALLY.

Biden: We have a hard job, but Sen. Biden is working hard to solve all of our problems from Washington - we don’t need to work out local solutions, because Washington is coming to the rescue! There is no local problem that can’t be solved by giving Washington more power and control.

Whether it’s GWB, Johnson, FDR, Truman, or IKE, we are all led to believe that the solutions to our problems lie within the beltway.

This weekend, the local Atlanta paper had a big article on all the earmarks that GA congressmen had attached to the spending bill. We complain about pork, until we pick up the local paper, and see where our runway will be improved, flooding will be controlled, and our law enforcement can talk to each other better - because of an earmark!

My basic philosophy is this:

There are basically five institutions that are bedrock to our society, three of which are mentioned in the Bible: Government, Church, Family, Volunteer Organizations, and the Marketplace. Each of these has a very important, sometimes unique role to play in our society to address issues. Often, these roles overlap and intertwine. Think of any issue, and the solution can be found in one or more of these areas.

As an elected official, I have to continuously guard against letting government become the one institution that lords over the other ones. We can be seduced into thinking that every problem can be solved by government - it can’t.

Even in government, local government is best equipped to handle issues. We know what the solution is, we also find ourselves involved in at least one of the other of the five institutions I mentioned above.

As for the cost - If we send a $1.00 to Washington, expecting to get back a dollar in services and grants, we are shocked when we only get back 35 cents. On the other hand, if we use that same dollar locally, can we not expect to get close to a dollar back in services?
20 Justin Thibault // Dec 23, 2007 at 12:27 pm

Bob - Great points.

You’d think that you, McCain, and Joe Biden were running for something.
21 Aaron // Dec 23, 2007 at 7:11 pm

Good points indeed but I’ll place the list in a good order for everyone:

1. Family

2. The Market Place

3 Church

4. Volunteer Organizations

5. The government.
(subdivided for your convenience)

a. local government
b. state government
c. federal government

Now all we have to do is go down the list with every problem we face and see where it can be taken care of. I’m guessing the federal government wouldn’t be used that much if they stayed at the bottom of the list and stopped trying to be number one!

Also, I think you just wrote a post for your blog Mr. Carruth!
22 Steve Smith // Dec 23, 2007 at 7:34 pm

Bob

Can we assume from you last post that you are endorsing John McCain for President since we know that you won’t be endorcing Joe Biden????
23 Justin Thibault // Dec 23, 2007 at 9:54 pm

Thierry -

“Rumor has it, the GOP Men’s Club is meeting January 24th.”
Might be funny if I showed up. Or at least plant a listening device somewhere.

The listening device will get you into trouble; but guests are always welcome. The Dems nominee for State Senate is often a guest of Ric Starnes’
24 Steve Smith // Dec 24, 2007 at 4:58 pm

Thierry

That sounds like an invite to me so I guess we’ll see ya there…what ya think….
25 Justin Thibault // Dec 24, 2007 at 5:01 pm

Steve - If you’re a registered Republican - you can even join: it’s only $20.
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[...] Two threads have sprung from this one: The President’s Legacy and the possibility of a McCrory Candidacy for NC Gov. Latest Post in 2008 ElectionOpen Thread: [...]
27 MarkMartin // Jan 4, 2008 at 12:43 pm

Thierry - I am not suggesting that we use War as economic policy, I am just making an observation of the major economic responses by government historically. By no means would I encourage sacrificing lives for economic gain.

Justin - I agree regarding what the GOP needs to do with Healthcare Reform.