Cabarrus Cheap Seats

20 responses so far ↓

• 1 Justin Thibault // May 20, 2008 at 12:51 pm

  Ken - Still curious, why won’t Garinger produce many scientists?

• 2 Aaron // May 20, 2008 at 1:14 pm

  Ever been anywhere within 2 miles of Garringer in the past few years?

  Its just a fact that needs to be stated. The vast number of folks who live near Garringer have no desire for their children to do anything…anything at all. The few that really do care are stuck in the “district” where their children have to go or face criminal prosecution.

  So no, there won’t be any scientists coming from Garringer because the few good prospects are surrounded by the scurge of society thanks to gub-ment’s all knowing ways.

  Like I said before, Poor Kids go to Poor Schools.

• 3 Kenneth McClamrock // May 20, 2008 at 2:37 pm

  I have seen Garinger’s test scores Justin… Just a hunch.

• 4 Justin Thibault // May 20, 2008 at 3:12 pm

  Fellas - So, we are leaving kids behind. Thanks for the update.

• 5 Kenneth McClamrock // May 20, 2008 at 7:46 pm

  No Child Left Behind is a crock Justin. Step down off the high chair and step into the classroom. NCLB is some of the worst legislation that any president allowed a weasel to slither into effect.

• 6 Justin Thibault // May 20, 2008 at 9:08 pm

  Ken - Without NCLB and the test scores you wouldn’t have passed judgment on the kids of Garringer - then again, I’m sure you could find some other criteria to judge them by.

• 7 Kenneth McClamrock // May 20, 2008 at 9:42 pm

  haha maybe

• 8 Aaron // May 21, 2008 at 9:32 am

  Eeewww: The race card!

  NC ABC’s required EOG testing way before NCLB and The Dubya-Teddy connection ever got out of first gear. Oh, and the folks at Garringer were failing those EOG tests too.

  Anyone with a functioning brainstem can see the problem is compound. Folks on welfare giving birth to children on welfare, cradle to grave dependence and a general malaise for anything scholastic are problems that happen outside of the school that prevent the school from functioning. Add to that a school board that’s never met a bad kid, no matter how many violent felonies he’s been convicted of and a forced system of education that requires kids to go to school or their parents face jail time (those same parents who didn’t care whether their child can read or not thanks to the gub-ment) and what do you get? A cesspool of education where the worst of the worse show up every day and do nothing.

  Now we’ll top this whole crap sundae off with a districting requirement that mandates you send your child to said cesspool just because you’re too poor to move to a better district. There you have it: the perfect formula for failure.

  See, it’s easy to understand the “no bonds, no way, no how” mentality when this kind of idiocy is taking place… Insert the standard response: “And you want to give these jackasses MORE money??”

  School Bond’s are fine by me. We are going to need more space. We’re doing a decent job of using our money wisely in terms of the schools we are building. I would suggest building them to meet expected capacity for 12-18 month from the date the school opens to hold off on having to move the mobile classrooms in on day one like they did at Fries Middle back in the day. But you have to recognize the reasons used by those against the idea. Meck county is not our school board but their stupidity has a ripple effect that resonates throughout the region.

• 9 Justin Thibault // May 21, 2008 at 11:07 am

  Aaron -
  

  Meck county is not our school board but their stupidity has a ripple effect that resonates throughout the region.

  I’d have to disagree. I think that the political leadership around here has been using Meck’s experience as a cautionary tale and not an ideal model.

• 10 Aaron // May 21, 2008 at 11:22 am

  I’d certainly agree with you on that. I was referring to the electorate that spend alot of time listening to talk radio and reading the Observer and then being scared that our folks will emulate the geniusry of the Mecklenburg County Whack Jobs.

  It’s this fear that anyone who supports more funding for school construction will have to overcome. Pointing out things like the way we are running our current system will be a good start.

  Whoever takes up the issue will need to be very open about the operations of the system and be able to demonstrate the actual needs for the area where each school will be built.

  Just looking at the capacity numbers Ken posted above the places with less than 100 students jump off the page. Some looking at condensing that needs to be done to remove this shock factor to potential voters. Plus: There may actually be some waste taking place at places like “Cabarrus Opportunity” and it’s 9 students.

  It’s better to do the spring cleaning now versus have all the dirt show up when a referrendum does actually hit the ballot.

• 11 Rev. Mike // May 21, 2008 at 12:26 pm

  Hey, now, they may be whack jobs, but they’re OUR whack jobs!

• 12 Rev. Mike // May 21, 2008 at 12:35 pm

  Justin/Aaron/Kenneth, the reason NCLB is a “crock” is that in all the high-minded “states rights” mindset (the only point at which “states rights” won’t get you labelled a racist) behind it, the states were allowed to set the bar where THEY want it. Thus, accountability went right out the window, ESPECIALLY in NC, because we use norm-based rather than criterion-based testing. And before anyone trots out the usual “teaching-to-test” objections, I don’t care. The fact that the powers-that-be in education have opted to implement the process in a passive-aggressive manner does not invalidate the underlying desire to provide accountability.

• 13 Aaron // May 21, 2008 at 1:32 pm

  It did provide for accountability. That was a good thing. Also provide “school choice” although about ten more sets of quotation marks should be used to define it.

  My son got to transfer out of a worse school for a better school.

  There are two problems with NCLB that make it a failure:

  First, it’s the typical unfunded mandate: “Do this and this and this” “Oh, but figure out how to pay for it yourself.”
  That’s where the State’s rights issue comes into play. I don’t think you should be able to come to my house and tell me how long my grass should be but that’s exactly what NCLB does to states. It tells them what is required and that they’ll be hell to pay if they don’t and then it walks away leaving states to figure out how to pay for it. It may have been designed that way so Bush could run for re-election telling folks how he improved education and didn’t raise taxes. Sure, he didn’t but taxes will still be raised.

  The second problem is that it’s the ceiling and the floor in one convenient package. Sure, make sure all the kids meet criteria “X” but what about those who are exceeding that criterion?

  My son’s issues in school are allowing him to get help on certain areas (where he’ll be tested at next year in third grade) but other areas are ignored completely. Meanwhile, my daughter who is “reading at a mid second grade level” while in Kindergarten falls asleep in class because she’s in no need of any further instruction to “pass” and be testable in 2 years.

  That’s been the entire complaint for the actual TEACHERS, not the adminstrators but the TEACHERS. They cannot control how they teach, what they teach or when they teach. The kids with learning issues get help but if there are none of those kids in a class the class still has to learn at the same rate as a class with a room full of slower kids.

  It’s a one size fits all system and those never work out well in the long run. I’ve learned that from Social Security which will go belly up years before I retire.

• 14 Kenneth McClamrock // May 21, 2008 at 2:27 pm

  Aaron

  I think you are partly correct. However, NCLB does not provide accurate accountability for teachers. Teaching is unlike any other profession. In any other career field, advancement and promotions are based upon production/performance. However, teacher performance/production can only be subjectively measured. Ill give you an example:
  Last year I was talking to another teacher (a really good teacher) who teachers all AP/IB level students. Of his 75 or so students, all made “4″s (the highest score) except for one kid. He was pissed that this student had made a “3″ and messed up his 100% “4″s. The same semester, I taught 2 low level classes. I was worried that 50% pass rate (3 or 4) would be a max for these students. You can imagine my elation when I discovered 78% had passed. It was far better than what I had expected. Now, as good of a teacher as the other teacher is, does the fact that 100% of his students passing mean that he is a better teacher than me or that he had better students than me? Or was it some kind of answer in between? Is it tougher to take a class of cocky know it alls and make them even smarter, or is it tougher to take a group of kids with no family support or backing and get them passing? Statistically speaking, he is a much better teacher than I am. But is he really?

  There are a number of problems with this “accountability” of NCLB. A teacher who teaches state-mandated exams is potentially putting their job on the line every semester’s end while the teacher teaching non-tested classes have nothing to worry about. I have a problem with that. Last year I taught all US History classes and was under the scrutiny big time. Next year, because of a population dip, I have all World History classes that has no mandates from the state. I can do as much as I want and spend as much time as a want per subject. If I hate the Renaissance, I can skip parts of it or altogether and noone would ever know the difference. You can not do that in a state-tested class.

  North Meck is consistantly in the top 3 schools in CMS every year. Our pass rates are pretty high. The problem with that is we are expected to outdo our previous years scores every year. If not, we are screwing up and action is taken. At a West Meck (for example), their 1st semester US History pass rate was below 50% for the entire school…. Is a 1% increase in scores for them equal to a 1% increase to North whose US History scores last year were at 79%? If we have a 78% pass rate this year, should we be punished while West Meck is rewarded for a 51% pass rate?

  These are two quick examples of how accountability is not equitable at all. At my brother’s school, there pass rate last year in US History was 17%. Are the teachers (who potentially sat in the same college classrooms as I and took the same preparation courses as I) really that much worse than me? Or are the kids a different type of kid?

  The truth is that a lot of education comes from the home. Parents (of traditional nuclear families) who support their kids and ensure their kids are doing well and have high expectations for their kids have kids who traditionally perform higher than kids who do not have the same backing at home.

• 15 Rev. Mike // May 21, 2008 at 4:04 pm

  The truth is that a lot of education comes from the home. Parents (of traditional nuclear families) who support their kids and ensure their kids are doing well and have high expectations for their kids have kids who traditionally perform higher than kids who do not have the same backing at home.

  Kenneth, I’m still concerned about the comment I made above re: state standards. I see so many parents like you describe who have failed to ask the larger question, and when their straight A student scores low on the SAT and then can’t get into the college of their choice, they are caught completely unaware. What do we do to fix THAT?

• 16 Aaron // May 21, 2008 at 4:38 pm

  Ken,

  These are the points that are resounded by my Aunt, 3 Cousins and my Step Mother who are all teachers.

  The wages in teaching and advancement and incentives are just as out of whack as they are in any other government bureau. When I was a police officer our pay increases were “meritorious.” It was designed to range from 0%-3% and were supposed to be doled out based soley on your merits such as the number of activities you initiated on your own. These ranged from arrests to traffic stops to community contacts to property checks etc.

  Those of us in the worst neighborhood always had higher “stats” than those in the nice cushy neighborhoods. But those in the nice cushy neighborhoods also had the opportunity to get out and do community service projects.

  The end result was a large group of very proactive officers who all deserved a 3% increase based on the standards set forth in the policy. The hitch was that City hall set a quota: Only X number of 3% raises, Y number of 2% raises and Z number of 1% raises.
  The deciding factor on who got those limited number of 3% raises was usually who played golf with the Major most often.

  Whatever the metric is for guaging the success of a teacher, it usually will get thrown out of the window in favor of cronyism or nepotism or some other underlying factor. I was always pissed when I got passed for the 3% raise but that just meant that a 2.5% raise was the highest level any honest officer who didn’t kiss ass 4 hours per shift could attain. I got that and it affirmed my work.

  A good teacher is a good teacher regardless of statistics. Most sane folks will take into account that you don’t have the opportunity to pick your students. A quick look at a students permanent record that shows an increase in grades while in your class should be all they need to properly give you what you deserve. But you have to keep an open mind and stay positve when Teacher X get’s the big raise because he got a better barmitzva gift for the administrator’s son…

• 17 Kenneth McClamrock // May 21, 2008 at 6:52 pm

  You are right on Aaron. Even Easley’s new pay raise idea is being met with a lot of resistance from older teachers. Honestly, I have not even looked at it, but from what the experienced guys are saying is that it will be a 7% pay raise (but not for everyone). From what I have been told, it will be a 7% raise for new teachers and lower as the experience increases. From their understanding it would put a 25+ yr teacher at like 2-3%. The problem is not getting new teachers or keeping old teachers. The problem is retaining teachers between years experience 4-15. Of the 12 or so new teachers who came to North with me 5 years ago, only 3 of us our left. Most of the men, many who are recently married, took jobs with cooperate America. Many of the female teachers did similar. I bet over 25% of our staff has less than 5 yrs experience and about 25% of our staff has over 25 yrs. The other 50% is somewhere in between.

  Granted, the good thing for me is that while cooperate American is slagging some, my teaching job is safe.

• 18 Steve Smith // May 22, 2008 at 4:11 pm

  Teacher’s Pay in North Carolina….What a joke!!!! Teachers are in the same boat as Law Enforcement Officer and its slowing sinking!!!!!

• 19 Aaron // May 22, 2008 at 8:07 pm

  Actually, Teachers are about 11-13% higher in pay than most local law enforcement officers.
  And a 9 month work year??? Geeze, it’s times like this I wish I’d taken the teachers test instead of the police officers test. (joke)

  But hey, we need Teapot and Nascar Museums as well as a new choo choo train… We’ll worry about those teachers and cops sometime after we put that 12th lane down I-85 between exit 63 and 49

• 20 Kenneth McClamrock // May 23, 2008 at 6:43 am

  hey… we are 10 mo employees!! (well, except for the whole Christmas and Easter break things…) lol

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