Cabarrus Cheap Seats

31 responses so far ↓

• 1 Steve Smith // Jun 11, 2008 at 11:01 am

  Larry Kissell doen’t have any employees that I know of. I thought he was a school teacher.

• 2 Aaron // Jun 11, 2008 at 12:56 pm

  perhaps they’re talking about campaign staff??

• 3 Thierry Wernaers // Jun 11, 2008 at 1:24 pm

  Here comes Robin “flipper” Hayes again!
  After almost losing last time, when his campaign released one attack ad and flier after another, Hayes is at it again. Just like last campaign, when he never talked about the issues, but constantly smeared his opponent, he thinks he can pull it off again this time.
  I got news for him: Start packing.

  What Hayes is complaining about in this ad is that Kissell didn’t have enough money last time to have a payroll of employees with benefits. Most people that worked for the Kissell campaign were hired on a consultant basis, sometimes even from week to week.
  And guess what? He’s right! The Kissell campaign didn’t have enough money, so what?
  We now have a Republican complain about people having to buy private Healthcare insurance???

  The difference with the Hayes campaign is that the Kissell campaign has hundreds of volunteers and some staff who are not in it for the money, but for one reason: They want the people in the 8 district to have a representative in Washington who fights for them, not for his own wallet.

  These attack ads a full 5 months away from the election prove one thing: Hayes is scared sh**less and he has every reason to be.

  So get ready for buckets and buckets of more sleaze and slime for the next 5 months, it’s the only thing the Hayes’ campaign can come up with.

  What a sleaze bag.

• 4 Justin Thibault // Jun 11, 2008 at 2:05 pm

  Aaron - You’re right

  Theirry - Even if someone doesn’t have “benefits” - you still need to pay FICA and the like. Meeting payroll is tough for an enterprise of any kind; but the money for all of these social programs have to come from somewhere.

• 5 Aaron // Jun 11, 2008 at 2:37 pm

  Well, if Thierry is correct and he hired them as 1099 employees then the employees themselves are actually responsible. I worked as a 1099 employee years ago and had to put back cash to pay all of my taxes, which I actually did. It’s not surprising that a bunch of ultra lib’s who are working for little money as political pundits would think themselves immune from having to fulfill the obiligation of paying their taxes. After all, taxes should only be paid by “rich folks.”

  And lest we forget that no liberal wants to pay for his OWN employees to have healthcare. Once again, that’s the responsibility of “Rich Folks.”

  Damn, for once, I’m glad I’m considered middle class. Although, I’m probably considered wealthy in the world of “Obamanomics”

• 6 Thierry Wernaers // Jun 11, 2008 at 3:08 pm

  Seriously folks, is this the best that Hayes can come up with?

  Even if Hayes is “your guy” you can’t possible be proud of these campaign tactics.

• 7 Thierry Wernaers // Jun 11, 2008 at 3:12 pm

  Aaron:
  What does this ad have to do with paying taxes? Everyone paid taxes. Are you accusing Kissell of not paying his taxes now?
  Only in the world of Aaronomics would that be true.

• 8 Aaron // Jun 11, 2008 at 4:59 pm

  Sorry Thierry, I forget sometimes that you’re one of the ultra libs who don’t realize what the word “taxes” entails. Medicare deduction is a tax, as is FICA and Unemployment. All government enforced deductions are taxes. Then again, you’re not a “rich folk” and don’t pay “taxes.” Not sure how that works out for you, I’m not a “rich folk” either and somehow I get these things taken out of my check…

  IE my “gross earnings” are 850.00. After FICA, Medicare and Unemployment my “net earnings” are 685.00. Where did all that extra money go Thierry? Where did it go????

• 9 mike // Jun 11, 2008 at 9:54 pm

  I saw this ad today and did a “face palm”.. going negative and with a large risk that people will view this as being hugely overblown (as Thierry did).. and going negative so early on.. not good.

• 10 Thierry Wernaers // Jun 12, 2008 at 12:18 am

  The only tax obligation the Employer has to the contractor is to issue them a 1099 form, which the contractor uses when filing their personal income taxes.

  The contractor, by legal agreement, is responsible for paying any taxes owed on that income.

  Larry Kissell is not a tax evader. He has not neglected to pay any taxes. Under the legal agreement of contractual employment, he does not have any tax responsibility.

• 11 Aaron // Jun 12, 2008 at 7:13 am

  Nice hair splitting. It’s right up there with the meaning of “is.”

  If you’ll squint your eyes a little and read the first comment I left concerning those “contractors” you’ll see that I was talking about them and not Larry. THEY probably never paid THEIR taxes because only “rich folks” are supposed to pay taxes. And again, re-reading the second paragraph will show that I was only talking about Larry not providing health benefits to his “contractors” for the same reason Obama isn’t providing them either: thats what “rich folks” are for…

  And of course the Obamanomics of it all is that even though I average 30 bucks in my checking account by the end of the week, I’m sure since I have a job and DO have health insurance, by the Obamassia logic, I’m a “rich folk” and should be paying for Larry and Baraks “contractors to have health insurance.

  Thats all I was ever saying. It’d be nice if you’d defend your saviors a little better than just splitting hairs. Granted, it’s stupid that Hayes is resorting to this but that’s exactly what Larry was doing when he paid for peoples gas back in his first campaign. It cut’s both ways and always has. Perhaps your savior should do a little more talking about the issues and a little less talking about how Bush is bad and he’d get more traction from folks with a logical brain and not just an emotional bleeding heart.

• 12 Justin Thibault // Jun 12, 2008 at 8:59 am

  Aaron - You forgot the 7.5% match that employers have to pay on top of the deduction from your check for Social Security.

  Theirry - When I get a chance later today, I’ll post the supporting information from the press release. As a tech worker, I’ve heard tales of plenty of abuses of contract workers. Here’s an example

  Mike - Well, Kissell has been going negative for 3 years. Nonstop. His most original ideas seem to go only as far as fundraising stunts.

• 13 Steve Smith // Jun 12, 2008 at 10:40 am

  Hey, you guys sound like a bunch of Union activists. If these people don’t want to work for Kissell than they can go somewhere else. As far as negative ads are concerned, its all part of the political game, deal with it. I’ll bet he won’t pay for any gas this time around.

• 14 Aaron // Jun 12, 2008 at 10:56 am

  That’s been the whole point all along Steve. He’s got them as 1099 employees to prevent having to pay taxes on them, making them responsible for themselves. I’ve bet a shiny new quarter that most of them didn’t pay like they are supposed to and Thierry lept to the idea that I was saying Larry didn’t pay his taxes. Sure, he paid his own taxes but the ad was about his responsibility to pay taxes on his employees.

  As far as negative ad’s are concerned, I’d say that there’s plenty of fodder out there to blast Kissel on actual issues and not what he did or didn’t pay in taxes. But hey, you’ve got to appeal to the electorate and it’s easy to see from the 2 presidential candidates that the electorate is more concerned with side shows and empty promises than any actual issues.

• 15 Liz Poole // Jun 12, 2008 at 12:36 pm

  Justin

  As a previous small business owner I was very much aware of the 7.625% employer match:

  The employer pays 7.625% and the employee has deducted from his/her pay check 7.625% to cover FICA. However, the self-employed person or the 1099 contract employee pays the entire 15.3% self-employment tax. The government gets the money either through the monthly payments from a corporation or from the quarterly payments of the contractor. There is also worker’s compensation insurance that has to be paid.

  I chose to cover my employees and pay both the company portion and the worker’s comp premium so that I didn’t have to worry if they paid or didn’t pay because I didn’t want someone from Employment Security, IRS, NCDOR etc. knocking on my door asking for money. (This happened with my first groomer because of her previous employer hadn’t paid and she hadn’t filed her taxes or paid. Eventually, they will find you.)

  My groomer made enough money for me to withhold taxes for her so I paid my portion and she paid her portion. The teenagers didn’t make enough money to owe Federal or State taxes so I paid my 7.625% and withheld their 7.625%. I didn’t have any 1099 employees (except myself when we were a LLC and then we incorporated so I withheld taxes,)

  One big reason for having 1099 employees is to avoid the business paying the matching portion. If you have a sole proprietorship or a partnership or a LLC, then 1099s are issued so the employee (including the owner) pays all their taxes. That goes for all businesses and not just campaign staff.

  I haven’t really kept up with Kissell and what he is doing. I’m not a fan of negative campaigns and would rather hear discussions on the issues.

  The long and short of it, if the employees were given 1099s then they owe the taxes, not Kissell, and they should have known that when they got their first paycheck. If they are complaining now, they need to go to work somewhere else and they need a basic lesson in personal finance.

• 16 Steve // Jun 12, 2008 at 12:53 pm

  This is what Barack Obama says about what Larry Kissell is doing:

  “By classifying a worker as an ‘independent contractor’ instead of an ‘employee,’ an employer pays less in employment taxes and workers compensation, sometimes cutting costs by 30 percent. Misclassified workers have the employer’s tax burden shifted onto them as if they were self-employed, meaning higher taxes for working-class Americans and a growing tax gap.”

  - U.S. Senator Barack Obama op-ed

• 17 Aaron // Jun 12, 2008 at 2:18 pm

  Steve-Direct Hit!!!

  More economic ignorance from the Messiah.

  “Obamanomics, catch the fever!!!”

  As a former 1099 employee I WAS a self employed person. I retained my own insurance, general liability coverage and was responsible for my own taxes. I also worked when I wanted and for as long as I wanted. It was pretty grand but now that I’m married with “chirren” I like the security of the W-2 gig I’ve been in.

  I love the part about how the “employers” tax burden shifts. As if the “employer” is neccesarily some huge multi national conglomerate. I think Liz could provide the Obamessiah some pointers on the actual size of the “corporations” that are the life blood of the economy…

  What a jackass…

• 18 Thierry Wernaers // Jun 12, 2008 at 3:05 pm

  Liz:

  Thanks for the insightful comments.

  If they are complaining now, they need to go to work somewhere else and they need a basic lesson in personal finance.

  None of the people that worked for Kissell have been complaining. The only one complaining is Mr. Hayes, because despite spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on negative ads that don’t deal with issues at all but only want to destroy the personal reputation of an opponent, he was packing up his belongings in Washington 2 years ago. I just hope he didn’t bother unpacking.

• 19 Aaron // Jun 12, 2008 at 3:10 pm

  So Thierry, no response to the direct quote from Mr. Obama?

  Seems to me that according to the Obamessiah, Mr. Kissel is one of those evil corporate types.

• 20 Steve // Jun 12, 2008 at 3:13 pm

  “Today, millions of American workers are incorrectly or deliberately misclassified as independent contractors, and the shock wave of abuse that ripples through the economy harms everyone and everything in its path, from an innocent worker to the honest business to the U.S. Treasury.”

  “Dishonest and unscrupulous businesses are gaming the system and hurting decent, hard working Americans and honest businesses in the process, and it is time the cheaters either play fairly or face the consequences.”

  - U.S. Rep. Jim McDermott (D-WA) - Chairman of the House Subcommittee on Income Security and Family Support

• 21 Steve Smith // Jun 12, 2008 at 3:27 pm

  How many employees are we talking about here? You guys make it sound like everyone in North Carolina works for Larry Kissell. Lets talk about all of the employers who hire illegal immigrants and pay them in cash. Where’s all of your indignation about that or trade agreements with all of the South American Countries that ship jobs below the border?????

• 22 Janet Leavitt // Jun 12, 2008 at 3:56 pm

  Well, the way i see it, Kissell is part of the problem, not part of the solution. How can someone who is gaming the system like this honestly think that we can trust him as our congressman?

  Especially coming from someone who CLAIMS to be the candidate of the working class. what a hypocrite!

• 23 Thierry Wernaers // Jun 12, 2008 at 4:06 pm

  Aaron:
  As long as you’re talking about “Obamessiah”, who I don’t know, I don’t think I should respond no.

• 24 Aaron // Jun 12, 2008 at 4:11 pm

  Free Trade is good Steve. Illegal Immigrant Labor has been discussed here on the cheap seats to the point where Justin and I just got tired of firing comments back and forth. (Justin, perhaps a link to that post)

  We could talk about the difference between actual free trade and what currently passes for such around capitol hill today but the issue with this post is whether or not Larry paid his taxes on his employees.

  If what Thierry says is correct (and I’m pretty sure it is) then Larry didn’t have any taxes to pay on them in the first place. That’s where the indignation on some peoples part is coming from. Hayes appears to be splitting hairs and mud slinging for the sake of it. We all know what a Larry Kissell congressional term would mean: More redistributionist policies coupled with isolationist views towards trade and the economy and an “ollie-ollie oxen free” stance on those illegal immigrants. Those are all good points which Hayes could use but smear works on all levels and not just those paying attention to what matters. That’s why I agreed with your previous comment.

• 25 Aaron McBroom // Jun 12, 2008 at 6:26 pm

  Wow Thierry, you’ve really read the “Obamessiah” play book thoroughly!

  Page 1, Chapter One, Article One: “Whenever confronted with damning evidence concerning your inexperience, inability or socialist past, just avoid the question all together and state that you’ll not discuss anything that takes away from the “issues.”

  Page 1, Chapter One Article Two: “Always avoid talking about the issues whenever possible as this may require you to address things that are covered in Article One of this Chapter.”

  Page 1 Chapter One Article Three: Always talk about the “little guy” while in the company of “little guys.” But, do so in a manner that comes off as elitist so as not to dissuade said elitists.

  Page 1 Chapter One Article Four: ” Always split hairs and avoid answering actual questions or concerns based in facts and instead focus on the hyperbole of empty catch phrases. Good one’s to use include: Hope, Change, Iraq, Oil, Corporations and Communism… Wait, forget that last one…

  Yep, I’ve got a copy too Thierry.

  Just keep avoiding the issues just like you did in the last thread that mentioned Obama, and keep telling us to go to Obama’s website to “read his policies for ourselves”.Yep, I’m just stupid enough to believe everything a politician says as the Bible truth. Call it whatever you want but being a creationist and a libertarian, I’m used to having my ideals challenged on a regular basis. I guess when a persons ideals are illogical and indefensible I’d avoid the questions too.

  By the way, I’m starting a dodge ball team. Care to join? You’re really good at it on Blogs…

• 26 Steve Smith // Jun 12, 2008 at 7:39 pm

  If I know anything about the way politics works, money won’t be a problem for Mr. Kissell this time around. Bill Clinton will be here pumping gas for him in downtown Biscoe and all of the money that can be brought to bear on this race will be here for him. No wonder Hayes is gettin’ an early start on the cheap shots, he’s gonna need ‘em.

• 27 Cabarrus Cheap Seats // Jun 13, 2008 at 2:40 am

  Backup Information on the Hayes Ad…

  As promised, here’s some backup information from the press release on the Hayes ad.
  First, here’s the Fact Sheet, for those who’ve worked 1099 - could you have gotten away with this?
  Second, here’s the tax information.
  Finally, …

• 28 Justin Thibault // Jun 13, 2008 at 8:31 am

  Aaron - At your request:

  Free Trade & Immigration: http://cabarruscheapseats.com/blog/2007/06/14/confessions-of-an-orourke-republican-the-zero-sum-illusion/

  Today is your last chance to make a comment on that one.

• 29 Cabarrus Cheap Seats // Jun 25, 2008 at 6:02 am

  Open Thread: Your Morning Cup O’ Crazy…

  I’ve moved those crazy Maria Ray comments from the Hayes Ad thread to here.
  This proves I’m rather permissive about what I let go on here; but I’d like to hear from everyone else - should behavior like this be permitted?
  ……

• 30 The Price of Honesty | Cabarrus Cheap Seats // Jul 15, 2008 at 7:31 am

  [...] on my blog, a contributor posted a video of an ad criticizing the Larry Kissell’s Congressional campaign’s p… – including Social Security - by designating his campaign employees as independent contractors. [...]

• 31 JustThrewUpaLittle // Jul 24, 2008 at 8:53 pm

  Never forget. Hayes’ opening volley of ‘08.

  Clearly a multi-millionaire to be proud of. He GET’S you. Really.

  Thank you for posting this attack, paid Campaign Manager Steve Quain. Buy a sweater, NC should prove much colder than Jersey to your ilk.

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